Is the 'Customer' always right ?

[GRS-555]

Been doing this for a long time, and GENERALLY under-charge.
I often make nothing and under-sell, when helping 'NEW' (local) busineses.
I don't charge per hour, (as am tecnically retired), and typically charge
$300 for a typical '5-page' site, including my own photography when needed
and CERTAINLY edited. Basic PayPal/Bankcard purchases, and without CMS options
then at least BASIC edits/uploads free for a year !!

ONE customer started in a very GREY-AREA, as was TOTALLY new in regards to today
and future products, themes, logos, ideas, product packaging (now expanded 100 fold!).
I kept all costs to a minimum, including Hosting, and CUSTOM (temp) e-commerce to save
them another $40 / month bill, all on my own server.

This 'customer' has now gone 'through-the-roof' with countless new product lines, and
expects me to jump at their beck-and-call at any one of their 500 changes for the last
14 months, and OFTEN these changes are MAJOR like updating 'specials & up-&-coming events'
pages, and re-designing the entire ordering process.....

So far,i have received 2 $100 payments (after a multitude of work OVER a year!!) all up.
I created ALL their graphics, including 'Adobe-Illustrator' files for their packaging/
product-boxing, their business-cards, stickers/labels artwork, letter-heads....

They recently requested ALL my 'artwork'  (quoting laws...xxx) even though they have NOT
even paid for it yet !!!!! (Have chosen their own printers, (fine), although i offered the best).

I have NOW spent a total of approximately 200 hours, (you would not believe their requets)
of REAL time , (customer & partner don't even agree or confer together) and i ACTUALLY
want to PULL-THE-PLUG on 'their' website and 'delete it', exept for the fact(?) that they
think they 'OWN' it, although not even paid for yet !!!!!!...

MORE-FOOL-ME... as the saying goes.....
and i accept that. But i don't believe in 'contracts' as such.
Would be NICE if people behaved in a Gentlemanly (gentlewoman) manner.
However, in REAL life, they DONT xxx
May you prosper..... but be warned.....and wary......

Glenn

[Frank]

Live and learn.
Export or download all files, Zip them up. Send it to them.
The ZIP will have all the html, password if CMS the images "as they show on the website", (not your layered PS or illustrator originals, those are yours) If they demand the psd or ai files, sure... flatten them and send them.
Be done with them.
I wouldn't even bother with the $200 hardly worth it.
With or without a contract they can't do anything because you have given them everything.

If it's on your server and they have not paid new hosting charges...tell them "here are all your files in a zip, and that they have a week to find other hosting and or pay, since you can't afford to carry them any longer. (that is out of pocket money)
Even if they pay the hosting do not take on anymore work.. give them the files and be done.
Wish them well... and move on.
Never worth the aggravation, ever.
Cheers,

[loes]

I agree with Frank! Don't send the original photos or artwork, just the versions used on the website. Sort of as soon as possible. But I would give them 2 weeks to find another hosting company (come on Frank, 1 week is too short for them to realize what they are throwing away).
Then take a long walk, do 15 push ups, oh maybe you have to get yourself one of those boxing bags and then relax and forget they ever existed!

Loes

[Frank]

2 weeks means they'll do nothing the first week then panic and ask for an extension, specially if you sent them all files from the beginning. They won't know what to do with all the files.
If they come up with "we didn't know we owed you additional services, please send us an invoice". Have a detailed FULL charge invoice ready for hosting and detailing services rendered. Detail the print art work, with its own cost... everything... minus $200.00 advanced.
If they pay its gravy, if they don't so be it... its lost money as is.
(have you been invoicing them all along or carrying it? Rule of thumb always invoice and email it... it's called a paper trail.)

Cheers,

[Frank]

If a client has a ton of changes I do them and invoice them at the end of doing them, or at the end of the week if its daily changes. I don't let the charges add up,. its easier to pay $125.00 - $350.00, then letting it ride and invoicing them $1200 later. The reason is two fold. The service was done, I should be paid and if you are going to have trouble find sooner better then later. Never let two payments be pending for a single client.
Food for thought. Even if you don't formally invoice, send them a detailed email with value due.That way you can always reference the email or invoice.
Cheers,
Frank

[GRS-555]

Hi Frank, and Loes.
You are both right of course, but i tend to treat different customers differently.
I generally hold off on payments until they are totally happy with the result, and generally ongoing
costs are minimal to nil. My policy is that whether it takes me 5 days, or 2+1/2 weeks it makes no
difference to my base-charge, as i want it to be right! no matter how many INITIAL general mods.
(Is just a side-line now, as i'm supposed to be medically retired).

I also normally include in my base-charge (if they don't have it) Logos, Letter-heads, Business-Card
design etc. so all is the same accross the spectrum, to reflect the website. And for simple sites with
no CMS i offer SMALL changes for free for a year, for the likes of phone-numbers, social-media link,
or discontinued product or service component, or simple wording mods etc.

However, i do get USED sometimes, and THIS customer has taken it to a new level !!!!
I felt sorry for them, just starting out with a smattering of home-made products in the pipieline, and
they had no idea how it all works, (internet/website/graphics/purchasing-wise) so i THREW in a lot for them.
I realized quite quickly that they were expanding RAPIDLY, so arranged for 2 small part-payments, as there
would be a LOT more work to do. I performed tons of graphical/vector work, chasing packaging printers for
boxing, product labels, stickers, brochures, large banners, etc etc etc. (As that's the person i am !).

Their incredible number of demands for months, (often changing their minds 6 timesfor each!), and that they
do NOT communicate with me properly, or responding to MY pleads for another face-to-face to re-plan the
whole scenario now, and for the near future with countless new products & required artwork, has left me
with no option but to give them the hard/final word. (Have even paid for some of their printing myself!!).

NO, they won't get my original '.ai' artwork etc. Only a copy of the site, and some anciliary documents.
I only started this thread as a RANT to get it off my chest...haha...
I'm not happy about doing what i have to do, as in a 'smallish' town, your name becomes mud.
Most 'companies' are well documented/accounted for, by me, with no probs, though still rely on a 'handshake' !!
THAT'S ENOUGH FOR THIS TOPIC !!! THERE'S MORE TO LIFE, SO WE MOVE ON....
Glenn